Under ground shelter/root cellar

[Brent S]

Just wanted to update the root cellar/shelter. I have all the wines and home canned goods out in it now. It stays cool and dry, but I noticed some mold growing on the wood shelving I made. Nothing major, but more than I am happy about. So, I brought a lot of the stuff, like my bug out bag and other supplies back inside. I bleached the shelving and went ahead and put in a small vent in the lower part of the from door, and drilled thru the concrete roof and installed a vent near the back. This should let it breath and hopefully slow down the mold issue. I will probably paint the shelving, but may end up having to replace it with some wire mould metal shelving. I had really thought about the ventilation before pouring the roof, but didn't want any potential leak spots so didn't do it. The ventilation will probably raise the temp a little inside, but I'm hoping not by much. I'm about ready to start camouflaging the shelter soon. I just bought a pallet of block and plan to hide it behind a retention wall where the elevation changes on the hill I dug into.

 

[Maverick]

Just wanted to update the root cellar/shelter. I have all the wines and home canned goods out in it now. It stays cool and dry, but I noticed some mold growing on the wood shelving I made. Nothing major, but more than I am happy about. So, I brought a lot of the stuff, like my bug out bag and other supplies back inside. I bleached the shelving and went ahead and put in a small vent in the lower part of the from door, and drilled thru the concrete roof and installed a vent near the back. This should let it breath and hopefully slow down the mold issue. I will probably paint the shelving, but may end up having to replace it with some wire mould metal shelving. I had really thought about the ventilation before pouring the roof, but didn't want any potential leak spots so didn't do it. The ventilation will probably raise the temp a little inside, but I'm hoping not by much. I'm about ready to start camouflaging the shelter soon. I just bought a pallet of block and plan to hide it behind a retention wall where the elevation changes on the hill I dug into.

Given your location, a dehumidifier like 'no damp' would work wonders Brent though with the cross ventilation in the cellar it may warm it too much, I had mold problem in mine, I laid outdoor carpet on the cellar floor that help a great deal, any cloth material I had couldn't touch anything solid (moisture absorbent like wood) but since I stored my camping gear in the cellar I had to use a dehumidifier (no damp) I also replaced all my wooden shelf's with plastic shelving.

Edit: Another note, an old timer here years ago told me to enter the cellar at night and not during the day, I also installed a mechanical indoor/outdoor thermometer mounted on the outside of the cellar entering when the temps where as close as possible during the summer months.

 

[Brent S]

Given your location, a dehumidifier like 'no damp' would work wonders Brent though with the cross ventilation in the cellar it may warm it too much, I had mold problem in mine, I laid outdoor carpet on the cellar floor that help a great deal, any cloth material I had couldn't touch anything solid (moisture absorbent like wood) but since I stored my camping gear in the cellar I had to use a dehumidifier (no damp) I also replaced all my wooden shelf's with plastic shelving.

Edit: Another note, an old timer here years ago told me to enter the cellar at night and not during the day, I also installed a mechanical indoor/outdoor thermometer mounted on the outside of the cellar entering when the temps where as close as possible during the summer months.

I am a little concerned about the temp going up with the ventilation. The vents are only 2 inches so it shouldn't move too much air, but everything I've been reading points to moving air helps a lot with mold. I'll pick up a damp rid product at the grocery store today. I guess I'll start looking for another shelving system soon as well. I've been reading about veggies stored in cellars, and high humidity is better for them, so I'll try to make it as suited for that environment as possible, though right now it's just for wine and canned goods so dry and cool is better. I figured there would be a little bit of a learning curve with how best to use this thing. Luckily the shelving will be put to good use in my woodworking shop.

 

[Brent S]

Well, the mold dosent seem to be worse anyways. I went inside to get a couple bottles of wine today, in the heat of the day, and was really happy and suprised that the temp was at 65. Better than I had hoped for. (I finally bought a thermometer and put it in there a couple days ago). I have only seen the mold on the unfinished wood shelves, so think I will replace them before long.

 

[Brent S]

I took out the wood shelving, and broke down and bought some chromed wire shelving. I'm still seeing more condensate than I like, but will see how the ventilated shelving helps. This is still a work in progress. Not sure if I'll do another vent in the door or not yet. I need to find a good bottle jack to help move debris from the door from a storm if blocked while inside. I want some tools to escape if need be as well. I'm open to ideas if anyone has advice here.

 

[Maverick]

View attachment 4416 I took out the wood shelving, and broke down and bought some chromed wire shelving. I'm still seeing more condensate than I like, but will see how the ventilated shelving helps. This is still a work in progress. Not sure if I'll do another vent in the door or not yet. I need to find a good bottle jack to help move debris from the door from a storm if blocked while inside. I want some tools to escape if need be as well. I'm open to ideas if anyone has advice here.View attachment 4415

I like the racks! ...and storage barrels.

 

[Brent S]

I like the racks! ...and storage barrels.

The barrels are what I make batches of wine in now. I outgrew the 5 gal jugs. This year the grapevines are covered with grapes. I can legally make 200 gallons of wine per year, and should be close to that this year. I'm seriously considering getting a small farm/vineyard license to try selling the stuff before long. At least I'll have a good barter product in any event.
Luckily I got the shelves on sale, but at three hundred it still hurt. Like I said earlier, at least I put the wood shelves in the shop, so they didn't go to waste.

 

[jimLE]

chain saw comes to mind.and so does hand operated drill and a hand saw of some kind..

 

[Maverick]

The barrels are what I make batches of wine in now. I outgrew the 5 gal jugs. This year the grapevines are covered with grapes. I can legally make 200 gallons of wine per year, and should be close to that this year. I'm seriously considering getting a small farm/vineyard license to try selling the stuff before long. At least I'll have a good barter product in any event.
Luckily I got the shelves on sale, but at three hundred it still hurt. Like I said earlier, at least I put the wood shelves in the shop, so they didn't go to waste.

200gals that's a few bottles and a good barter product, the shelves don't look cheap though I wasn't going to rub it in by saying 'I bet them shelves wasn't cheap'

 

[Brent S]

chain saw comes to mind.and so does hand operated drill and a hand saw of some kind..

I'm not sure I want to run a chainsaw in an 8x10 enclosed room, but like the hand tool ideas. An axe comes to mind, along with a hammer and chisel. I really want a strong metal pole to put against the back wall, and a strong bottle jack that can push the door open if blocked by debris. I saw on the news recently where a woman in Texas drowned in her shelter. At least I don't have to worry about water here. If I flood here, I'm thinking its a biblical event.

 

[jimLE]

yeah.i figure no chain saw in such a small enclosed area.but thats the 1st thing that came to mind..and it stayed..

 

[Dani]

I got a few of those blue barrels myself. We keep feed for the critters in them and I also have those metal type shelves, but only a couple. One stationary like you and the other with wheels. Both in my stock room and I love them for storage.

 

[Brent S]

I got a few of those blue barrels myself. We keep feed for the critters in them and I also have those metal type shelves, but only a couple. One stationary like you and the other with wheels. Both in my stock room and I love them for storage.

I usually just make most things like the shelving, but had to do something different in this case. Those barrels were a great find though! There #2plastic, which is food grade, and have lids with bands that seal up good. The only thing that worries me with them, is you don't really know what they were filled with. They can ship anything in them, and I'm a little cautious of what chemical residue could be in it. Oh well, I scrubbed them well at least! I really wish I could find some new ones.

 

[Dani]

Hunny found ours from somewhere online. They shipped some sort of peppers in them or at least that is what ours were labeled

 

[Brent S]

Hunny found ours from somewhere online. They shipped some sort of peppers in them or at least that is what ours were labeled

I paid thirty each for them, but think you can get them new for around 70 plus freight. My guy said hey had baking soda in them, but the labels had been peeled off, so who really knows. I feel that when a salesmans lips are moving, be wary .

 

[jimLE]

i had a bad time at a yard sale today..there was 3 plastic barrels with lids and the ring to clamp them in place.and 2 steel barrels with lids and clamps for clamping shut.all for $7.00 each...and not the money for one.... UUUUGGG!!!..but they most n likely be there monday.in which i'll be going to town again.and i'll see if i can trade something for them

 

[Dani]

Hope you can work it out Jim. We have been refueling some of our barrels recently with some gas and others with diesel

 

[Brent S]

Well, I discovered that the hotter it gets outside, the more condensate I get in the root cellar. I started removing the canned goods out of it yesterday. I didn't loose anything, but did have some rust forming on some lids, so those will get eaten first. I still have the wines out there, and will use it as a storm shelter. Luckily I can make the wines there as the smells make my wife nauseous in the house. I experimented with the ventilation, but to keep it dry raised the temp too much. I'll see how it goes in the winter months. I could add a dehumidifier, but the main goal was for safe storage without needing electricity. Bummer on the food storage aspect!

 

[Silent Earth]

Oddly enough I once met a couple who lived outside Liberal in Kansas who upon first glance lived in a big mobile home and had a storm shelter built into a berm to protect from tornadoes, But the inside of the shelter was as big as the inside of the mobile home and far better fitted out. They lived more underground because it was cooler in summer and warmer in winter but was not quite legal due to local laws, so they kept a basically fitted out mobile home on top to keep the authorities happy

 

[Brent S]

Oddly enough I once met a couple who lived outside Liberal in Kansas who upon first glance lived in a big mobile home and had a storm shelter built into a berm to protect from tornadoes, But the inside of the shelter was as big as the inside of the mobile home and far better fitted out. They lived more underground because it was cooler in summer and warmer in winter but was not quite legal due to local laws, so they kept a basically fitted out mobile home on top to keep the authorities happy

It never ceases to amaze me how little your rights are on your own property!

 

[Silent Earth]

Just this week I was reading about American families living good high quality lifestyles but being OFFGRID EG well/ PV/wind etc , compositing toilets etc who were being forced by law to connect to the mains gas, elec, water and sewage systems !!!!!!, mind you I also read in many US states your kids HAVE to be inoculated by law or they cannot go to school.................... Land of the free my English ass.

 

[Silent Earth]

Least you chaps in the former colonies own what is under your feet, if you find oil, gas, water, coal , diamonds etc they are yours, in the UK its all owned by the state if its underground. Even drilling a bore hole for water requires licencing.

 

[savageagle]

Quote>>""It never ceases to amaze me how little your rights are on your own property!""
Back in 1988 when I was still in San Jose our neighbor in front of a duplex was found to be the person who was leaving notes to my wife and black roses in the mailbox. She was scared and I was pissed and eventually caught him in the yard one night. I pounded and stunned the guy with 990k volts and held him til the cops arrived. They arrested him for trespassing and later evidence and another witness connected him to several incidents of the same to other married women. I remember the officer telling me after I told him I was going to shoot the guy, he told me privately to make sure I lured him inside first or I was to pull him inside after, basically saying to me, it's not what it is but rather what I could make it look like. Even though I had gates that were locked everything from the street right up to my door was public access, even to strangers. when I moved to the Fresno area, sierra nevada foothills near Sequoia Nat'l park, 3k feet I thought things would be different. I'm on 5 acres and the house is right in the middle. here it's still the same laws as San Jose, everything from the street right up to my door is public access and you don't have rights to shoot someone on public access so here's where you have to be creative. If the person really deserves it you have to make it look legit in order to protect yourself. Why shouldn't we be able to do this when law enforcement does it all the time. Many agencies do it and i've heard that quote many times. "It's not what it is, it's what it can be made to look like". Shouldn't be that way, you should have the right to shoot and kill someone who has come to your house to do you harm or worse. Obviously if the person is in your driveway (public access) and starts to point a gun at you then you have to do what you have to do. This public access rule/law does not protect a home owner but protects criminals more and in some cases they can file a law suit against you and possibly win. Even breaking in to your home and they fall and hurt themselves, they can sue you. I say get crafty, be smart and make it look like what you want to protect yourself and your family.

 

[savageagle]

Law makers are also trying to pass a law that everyone has to use propane and cannot use firewood in wood burning stoves. BS, I can't afford to use propane to heat my home. I'll just reroute the chimney and hide it and have it dump smoke away from the house or route it underground and come up with some type of filter. got to come up with something before i'll use propane to heat my home. Just everything and anything where they can make money they'll try it. Just like trying to put meters on our wells. They did it in Santa Clara county and are trying to do the same here. The mileage tax in Seattle...................when will it stop? Never, as long as there is something they can tax they will. Control, control, control or less rights, less rights, less rights, all the same. We should come together as a people and say NO, NO, NO, NOT GOING TO DO IT. WE THE PEOPLE have the collective power if we could just stand as one.

 

[Brent S]

Quote>>""It never ceases to amaze me how little your rights are on your own property!""
Back in 1988 when I was still in San Jose our neighbor in front of a duplex was found to be the person who was leaving notes to my wife and black roses in the mailbox. She was scared and I was pissed and eventually caught him in the yard one night. I pounded and stunned the guy with 990k volts and held him til the cops arrived. They arrested him for trespassing and later evidence and another witness connected him to several incidents of the same to other married women. I remember the officer telling me after I told him I was going to shoot the guy, he told me privately to make sure I lured him inside first or I was to pull him inside after, basically saying to me, it's not what it is but rather what I could make it look like. Even though I had gates that were locked everything from the street right up to my door was public access, even to strangers. when I moved to the Fresno area, sierra nevada foothills near Sequoia Nat'l park, 3k feet I thought things would be different. I'm on 5 acres and the house is right in the middle. here it's still the same laws as San Jose, everything from the street right up to my door is public access and you don't have rights to shoot someone on public access so here's where you have to be creative. If the person really deserves it you have to make it look legit in order to protect yourself. Why shouldn't we be able to do this when law enforcement does it all the time. Many agencies do it and i've heard that quote many times. "It's not what it is, it's what it can be made to look like". Shouldn't be that way, you should have the right to shoot and kill someone who has come to your house to do you harm or worse. Obviously if the person is in your driveway (public access) and starts to point a gun at you then you have to do what you have to do. This public access rule/law does not protect a home owner but protects criminals more and in some cases they can file a law suit against you and possibly win. Even breaking in to your home and they fall and hurt themselves, they can sue you. I say get crafty, be smart and make it look like what you want to protect yourself and your family.

One thing I am certain of, if someone is bad enough that I need to shoot them, I'm not going to stop till the clip is empty. There is no way I am going to give someone the chance to sue me over some lawyers technicals loopholes. I hope I never need to shoot anyone, but if pressed in a corner I plan to come out on top.

 

[Mountain trapper]

Least you chaps in the former colonies own what is under your feet, if you find oil, gas, water, coal , diamonds etc they are yours, in the UK its all owned by the state if its underground. Even drilling a bore hole for water requires licencing.

This is only true IF you also own the mineral rights to the land. Just because you own a property doesn't mean that you automatically own the mineral rights too. Many people who have inherited land have found out the hard way that their great grandfather sold the mineral rights years before. Before buying any land always check to see who owns the mineral rights. Now days it is unusual that any land, in potentially mineral rich areas, will include the mineral rights. Fyi, most areas of the US also require a license or permit for drilling a water well too. I had to file a water right on a spring on my property in order to keep someone else from claiming it. Years ago the "Colonies" fought a war against England for independence, only to become very much like England today.

 

[savageagle]

Here in Cal there have been a few who have emptied clips into the suspect and had to do time because somewhere it says something about more than one shot to stop an intruder is too much. Even the law, they don't want you to kill the person just stop him. Well, I agree with you brent, I don't want this guy getting up to come at me again. A sheriff told me that I shouldn't train as double tapping, he says it could come back to haunt me if they conclude that one shot was enough to stop the person but I shot more, it may go against me. Law enforcement trains "double tap" so why can't I? Again, it's more for the criminal than it is for the victim.

 

[Silent Earth]

Law makers are also trying to pass a law that everyone has to use propane and cannot use firewood in wood burning stoves. BS, I can't afford to use propane to heat my home..

Note it has NOTHING, ZIP, Zero, NADA to do with pollution or environmental protection and everything to do with having total control over the essential utilities you need to live. The state US / EU or UK DOES want total control over the people.
They do this by (A) passing laws to force as many people to used grid utilities (Gas, Elect, Water, Sewage) and Store bought food ( they are making it ever harder to grow your own food from sterilised seeds, the limiting necessary chemicals to banning food plots in the lie they may pollute the local water ways etc. (B) By moving or centralising essential services in larger towns or cities , govts move schools, hospitals, libraries, govt offices, police depts. etc etc into the big towns and deplete the rural areas, this drives ever more people to move into the cities where its much easier for the state to control them.

 

[jontte]

looks like it even easier now with the economy in this state..you want some service,well move into the city,we have a nice flat for you here it's only in the midst of addicts and drunks,but it's here...

 

[Silent Earth]

I would rather have my balls repeatedly wacked between two house bricks than move into a city, or in the vernacular that Americans like
" Cities are where victims live"