What do you do to feed small/medium livestock (a family's worth plus a little extra) should feed houses lose supply?

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777funk

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Somewhat of a question like the Egyptians had for the 7 year famine in the Old Testament. The answer... store up for the future.

But, is there a way besides storage? Not everyone has barns or places to put them. Not everyone has fields to plow, plant, harvest.

What did they do in the 1800s when the US was a new country expanding westward and settlers setup in the woods? There were obviously not feed stores for the chickens and pigs etc.
 
Your question is to broad... 1800 farming in GA was totally different than in the Ohio valley. Pick an area then date, internet searches will turn up the info you need. Crops that grew well in Ohio didn't necessarily grow well in GA and vice versa.

Also... just remembered, the industrial revolution was happening in the 1800's. Tools available to farms changed drastically over 100 years so you need to narrow down the time frame.

Example, trains for shipping goods became common in the eastern US by the 1850's. By 1870 beef on the hoof was being shipped to chicago form texas, then shipped east in refrigerated cars. Railroads changed what farmers grew and how they did it. By 1890 Tractors were becoming available.

So, farming was vastly different in 1880 than 1820.
 
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its why they worked their rears off clearing lands and getting crops going so they could get any harvest. people ate from crops as well as their livestock. there were people of all levels under this simple answer.
 
777funk said:
Somewhat of a question like the Egyptians had for the 7 year famine in the Old Testament. The answer... store up for the future.

But, is there a way besides storage? Not everyone has barns or places to put them. Not everyone has fields to plow, plant, harvest.

What did they do in the 1800s when the US was a new country expanding westward and settlers setup in the woods? There were obviously not feed stores for the chickens and pigs etc.
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I would say, need to step back from what we know of farm/livestock keeping of today as well as diet. Pres. Hoover promised "a chicken for every pot." Chickens were expensive &/or not easily kept because they eat grains and meat - the same as humans. Pigs have been kept by the poorest of citizens for many years due to their short growing season, if you will, and ability to consume scraps and biproducts (whey). It all has to work in tandem. You would need a milk cow (or goat or whatever) in order to have the milk to make the butter to give the whey to feed the pigs. The other thing to consider that is difficult in today's world is that communities worked together. And then, in the end, the animals are the human fodder - IMO, part of why gov. is pushing a vegetarian diet and meat substitutes. I've done a little research in this field - definitely far from having all the answers, but I have a feeling what you are thinking is right up my alley. If you have more specific questions, feel free to throw them out there.
 
There are several of us on here crossbreeding game Chicken and heavier English breeds. Raising Geaunies , ducks etc. I think the smaller goat and cattle breeds will do better. Permaculture , rotational grazing/Gardens etc. I know people despise the feral hog problem we have now but they might end up being our savior before this reset is over. Seed that's not often mentioned are things like Black eyed peas , barley ,Rye , oats , not just wheat and Corn etc. Squashes , tomato , cucumber. Okra.
 
This scenario of possibly not being able to buy animal feed is why I choose milk goats as my main survival animal . They can live off stuff a cow couldn't . Leaves , weeds , vines are some of their most favorite foods . For now mine eat well on grain and hay that I buy but I have occasionally let them free range with no fencing or any type of enclosure to condition them for the collapse and get them used to following my commands and returning to their pen when told to do so . --- Another survival critter I have included is chickens . Because of predatory animals keep them in a pen with a roof . That way I collect all the eggs as that wouldn't likely happen if free ranging . In preparation for the collapse I have a earth worm bed where I on occasion put out stuff to encourage a good worm colony . The worms are for feeding to the chickens after the collapse . --- Even more radical I have a pen containing homing pigeons " not full blooded " Those I can let fly and forge on their own and supply me with a small amount of pigeon eggs . interestingly I made them a little doorway where they can go and come as they wish to the outside world , but they never leave their enclosure . During the collapse I might have to pick them up and throw them out to seek food .
 
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TENNGRIZZ said:
There are several of us on here crossbreeding game Chicken and heavier English breeds. Raising Geaunies , ducks etc. I think the smaller goat and cattle breeds will do better. Permaculture , rotational grazing/Gardens etc. I know people despise the feral hog problem we have now but they might end up being our savior before this reset is over. Seed that's not often mentioned are things like Black eyed peas , barley ,Rye , oats , not just wheat and Corn etc. Squashes , tomato , cucumber. Okra.
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Which is why DeSoto brought them with him in the first place. (the pigs)
 
the only reason we as modern folks think of feed in bags/sacks is because with rural electrification came system that required pellitized feed. that way bins filled and fed out easier and chores of daily feeding livestock time was cut by hours. you can search youtube and see old agriculture films showing how they started out showing systems of automation..GE put out several as well showing how one simple electric motor powered lots of things. before this there was lister engines and much more.

people fed livestock on things like mangels,turnips,regular beets,hay and various fodders.they had grainerys where wheat,barley,spelt and such was kept dry and from varmints. corn cribs that were bear proof was a must in appalachia and thiose examples are still seen in smokey mtn historical sites. bears still raid farms and homesteads today just as they always have.

look for old agriculture year books pre 1950.theres ag books from late 1800's as well.
 
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Some prepare thinking they will still have motorized equipment and fuel to operate the equipment for growing crops to feed animals or harvesting hay . I prepare for having no access to either . Unlike the western era shows , few people these days have a trained animal for working crops or the ploys and such for the animal to pull . If there isn't animal feed available there is also a high chance grocery stores and gas stations will also be empty . I know some on here might think my prepping / survival mind set goes way beyond reason , but that is who I am .
 
poltiregist said:
Some prepare thinking they will still have motorized equipment and fuel to operate the equipment for growing crops to feed animals or harvesting hay . I prepare for having no access to either . Unlike the western era shows , few people these days have a trained animal for working crops or the ploys and such for the animal to pull . If there isn't animal feed available there is also a high chance grocery stores and gas stations will also be empty . I know some on here might think my prepping / survival mind set goes way beyond reason , but that is who I am .
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heres how you keep your homestead/farm producing. use it sparingly.

R.8ea7b2333132dd36d52cc30ab88c9659
 
poltiregist said:
Some prepare thinking they will still have motorized equipment and fuel to operate the equipment for growing crops to feed animals or harvesting hay . I prepare for having no access to either . Unlike the western era shows , few people these days have a trained animal for working crops or the ploys and such for the animal to pull . If there isn't animal feed available there is also a high chance grocery stores and gas stations will also be empty . I know some on here might think my prepping / survival mind set goes way beyond reason , but that is who I am .
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less than a gallon can keep a huge garden weed free.
 
elkhound said:
heres how you keep your homestead/farm producing. use it sparingly.

R.8ea7b2333132dd36d52cc30ab88c9659
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I could not agree more..........

Here is a simple energy calculation:

Each human consumes and burns through about 6Mj of energy per day (and that is doing everything....not just working).

Each gallon of diesel contains about 140Mj of energy.

So each gallon of diesel is equivalent to a little over 23 man days of energy.

If a gallon of diesel costs $3, then replacing that with manual labor makes each days work equivalent to $0.13 per man day of labor.

There must be a better way to save 13 cents...............
 
Hardcalibres said:
I could not agree more..........

Here is a simple energy calculation:

Each human consumes and burns through about 6Mj of energy per day (and that is doing everything....not just working).

Each gallon of diesel contains about 140Mj of energy.

So each gallon of diesel is equivalent to a little over 23 man days of energy.

If a gallon of diesel costs $3, then replacing that with manual labor makes each days work equivalent to $0.13 per man day of labor.

There must be a better way to save 13 cents...............
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But... that's counting only the fuel. On the debit side, if you buy new it takes $45k worth of man hours (maybe a years wages for some) to buy a new small to medium sized tractor depending on the color scheme. It takes many man hours and more man hours in parts costs to maintain the tractor. A collection of implements also costs man hours (hopefully not as much as the tractor but maybe so buying new). I'd say $100k for equipment to power a small scale farm would be an easy bill to run up if you buy new. So, it's not as much of a free lunch as it sounds by having modern technology. But of course it is by far still more credit than debit. Now is society better off for the higher production? That'd be way off topic for this thread. Yes and no of course.

Edit to say... a hard working mechanically inclined person could probably spend $10-15k and get most of this same equipment potential by buying used and perhaps old used (but with more man hours to keep it running). And... we could take this a long ways... 2 man tree felling saw vs chain saw... animals milling vs 3 phase electric motors, etc.
 
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I store 1500-2000 gallons of diesel for agricultural machinery, trucks and vehicles.

If I knew I was never going to be able to replace that, I could make it last at least 10-15 years.

15 years is a long time in a post apocalyptic world.

I don't store as much gasoline because, even with frugal use, it won't be too many years before it goes bad and is unusable.
 
everyone will not be on same level.just like today. some farmers have gps guided harvesters while others are plowing with oxen and a wooden pointed plow...search Nepal farming on the steep hillsides...as many other places.


a person can do a lot with a chainsaw,tiller and hand tools and 100 gallons of fuel. and nothing else.

many of us live very different lifestyles so we have infrastructure in place as it plays a role in our daily lives.

bottom line you need storage of some type via barns,grainery,corn crib etc. if you are going to feed any livestock. even just a flock of chickens requires feed storage , a barrel/drum or metal trash can etc. wooden barrels were used for storage back in the day as well as giant clay drums about the size of 55 gallon barrels..these were found in middle east concerning king david and several were still full sized and unbroken. living season to season is often beyond most grasp if they never done it and they lived a pay check to pay check mainstream lifestyle.its not their fault its because of being removed from agrarian lifestyle and our modern food systems.
 
You are right, Spikedriver. And hey, there's an old timey thresher in our little town's "used car for sale" area. It's at least 100 yrs old and I have seen it work before. So wheat problems solved.
Someone is selling an old fire truck, too. I think the tractor out there sold.
Many here grew up tilling land with horses, but of course are happy to use a tractor now. Communities all over do not use tractors and still till by hand. A cousin here of mine that grows certified organic, just harvested his white, food grade milo. Interesting enough, a good amount of it sold nearby right away for high price animal feed. Someone has a market selling super special high priced chicken feed. Probably to city people with chickens as pets. One of my cousins has chickens, about 40 or so, and he mixes his own feed with what he grows. Milo is one ingredient, he crushes wheat with a large hand operated thingy I've seen in the barn, he adds calcium (crushed eggshells), and whole oats, cracked corn. The only thing he buys and doesn't duplicate is chick starter. Also has had no luck keeping guinea babies alive because game bird starter is not sold locally and they need higher protein. I have to buy my game bird feed in the bigger town for our turkeys and guineas
 
777funk said:
Somewhat of a question like the Egyptians had for the 7 year famine in the Old Testament. The answer... store up for the future.

But, is there a way besides storage? Not everyone has barns or places to put them. Not everyone has fields to plow, plant, harvest.

What did they do in the 1800s when the US was a new country expanding westward and settlers setup in the woods? There were obviously not feed stores for the chickens and pigs etc.
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looking at first part of question...7 years and storage. i assume you read the book since referenced story. but anyhow..during times of famine it means lands are not producing goods. that means only way to get volume of calories for yourself and livestock is or probably is stored goods. for those without storage..well look at the book...they went to joseph..a hebrew over egypt...to buy their daily foods.

this part is only if you are a believer of book..towards end of time there will be a time you will have to take the mark of the beast to buy,sell and trade. its just best to be a person keeps a decent amount on hand.buckets under bed to barn loft and grainery full. you only one decide what level.


last part 1800's thing in u.s...its why they often or mostly built barns first. root cellars and more and made wooden barrels for storage if they had the skill of a cooper.i seen museum pieces of giant hollowed out tree trunks they used as barrels. they fed livestock from corn,tubers and winter pumpkins. you can see that today around the globe especially in russia still.often livestock grazed in the wilds and when winter started all extra mouths were butchered so only essential livestock was fed on hard to grow items. my great grandfather born in late 1870's and died in 1961 grew turkeys and butchered them.he packed them in salt in wooden barrels and they were shipped on a train to city for people to buy just example of how important barrels were and still are in fact.back then each farmer had his own seeds developed fpor his farm and often was very protective of 'family cultivars' that had been developed and handed down generation to generation in a family. read about stowells evergreen corn and the lie that was told to get a few ears and then sold for huge money.

jefferson stored 20 barrels of corn...dried hominy..to feed himself and household with each year.according to his records...at Monticello.i see navajo doing basically same thing today.


wandering around looking for goods during a famine aint much of a plan either. plan ahead and accordingly to whats on your heart to do so and good luck.
 
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I’m sure enjoying reading this thread. Some good info/ thoughts.
On having a horse trained to pull implements (above) my Gpa used to say one of the first things to do when training a horse was tie them to a log and let them drag it around. Gets the spook out of them and pulling things is a common use for any horse.
 
elkhound said:
looking at first part of question...7 years and storage. i assume you read the book since referenced story. but anyhow..during times of famine it means lands are not producing goods. that means only way to get volume of calories for yourself and livestock is or probably is stored goods. for those without storage..well look at the book...they went to joseph..a hebrew over egypt...to buy their daily foods.

this part is only if you are a believer of book..towards end of time there will be a time you will have to take the mark of the beast to buy,sell and trade. its just best to be a person keeps a decent amount on hand.buckets under bed to barn loft and grainery full. you only one decide what level.


last part 1800's thing in u.s...its why they often or mostly built barns first. root cellars and more and made wooden barrels for storage if they had the skill of a cooper.i seen museum pieces of giant hollowed out tree trunks they used as barrels. they fed livestock from corn,tubers and winter pumpkins. you can see that today around the globe especially in russia still.often livestock grazed in the wilds and when winter started all extra mouths were butchered so only essential livestock was fed on hard to grow items. my great grandfather born in late 1870's and died in 1961 grew turkeys and butchered them.he packed them in salt in wooden barrels and they were shipped on a train to city for people to buy just example of how important barrels were and still are in fact.back then each farmer had his own seeds developed fpor his farm and often was very protective of 'family cultivars' that had been developed and handed down generation to generation in a family. read about stowells evergreen corn and the lie that was told to get a few ears and then sold for huge money.

jefferson stored 20 barrels of corn...dried hominy..to feed himself and household with each year.according to his records...at Monticello.i see navajo doing basically same thing today.


wandering around looking for goods during a famine aint much of a plan either. plan ahead and accordingly to whats on your heart to do so and good luck.
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On this note, you brought up a memory. Quite a few of the old barns had a “grain room”. A totally enclosed room except for the door which was more of a chute-like access (sorta) where boards were removed one by one as the level of the grain decreased.
 
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