Has "Prepping for Survival" gone in the WRONG direction......???

[ssonb]

Kinda reminds me of a story once where a rancher was walking across his pasture and stepped in to a large pile of BS, He just shrugged his shoulders and went home, After walking thru his house he complained to his wife about the strong BS smell. She told him" Hell honey It wernt here till you drug it in."

 

[Meerkat]

No........that is not what interests me. But some forums are more about members getting their "LIKE" button pushed, and establishing priorities around who can win the most likes contest.

Most forums are an example of my whole point with this thread.........and the direction that the Prepping/Survival concept has taken. I say the better direction was the original direction, the original goal, the original purpose. I think many prepping/survival forums are setting people up to die. And it will likely be a very horrible death.

The original concept of prepping/survival............did not have like buttons, it was not about seducing people into "Feel Good".

Most people here or anywhere else I go don't ever give me " LIKES " but it really isn't why I come to forums. I don't need tham but I do need to learn and vent. Be it good or bad.
But it I can do one little thing like ' LIKE ' a post and make somebody know they are welcome or acknowledged then why not? It doesn't cost me a thing and it may make people feel a tiny bit better?
There is far too much negative [ and I am guilty for sure of that ] in the world now.
Now and then I will defend if I think somebody is being ganged up on. But usually just stay out of arguments and don't like either party post.
I find something to like in most people. Some I like more than others.

 

[Amish Heart]

Ok, VP, everyone here has made good points. I'm going to guess at your original post where you said prepping/survivalists going in the wrong direction. And then you saying you were going back to the 40's and 50's. Maybe you are feeling that it's going in the wrong direction because people are prepping now for different reasons than they were 60 years ago. We've got new reasons....EMP for one. And some just want to be self sufficient and do things the old ways like their grandparents did. You probably should realize that all of us are in different places for different reasons with prepping. It was obvious reading everyone's posts.
Don't be mad. We're all very different.

 

[Rick]

As I said before.. when people argue about the best approach to "prepping" they are often all correct..
Its only they are thinking of different phases of SHTF slide in as their goal to be resilient against.

 

[Rick]

It is totally pointless for me to respond, in specific detail. It is pointless for me and it is pointless for the forum members. This is a closed group, and typical of closed groups, it has circled the wagons. I don't think this group realizes how closed it is. Now is that a problem for me......NO. Is that a problem for the group.......NO. This thread and a few of the other threads that I started have turned into classic studies of group dynamics. That is neither good or bad, it is just what is.

The group has embraced it's list of core beliefs. The group has it's leaders who attack and attempt to discredit anyone new who does not blindly subscribe to those core beliefs. Does any of that matter.......NO, again it is just what is. I have been under attack from the moment I joined this forum. Does that matter........NO, it simply is what is. And matters not to myself or the group. In fact it is a substantial part of what makes a group a group.

My prospective spans over 60 years in the study of prepping and survival, which is a longer period from which to have noticed the evolution of this prepping/survival movement. One could choose any point in the last 40,000 years to mark the start of the "Modern" prepping/survival movement. My being born in the mid 40's.......I choose the mid to late 50's as the birth of "Modern" prepping/survivalist movement.

At it's start it was never intended to embrace everyone. The basic theory was birthed by an architect Don Stephens, and was written about and modified by: Mel Tappan and Bradford Angier and Col. Townsend Whelen and later put forth by Jeff Cooper, and many others. While not part of that group, Major Frederick Russell Burnham's theories of "Scout" and, his methods as "Scout" operations have influenced my prepping direction.

VP: There is no wagon circling here. I wasnt even aware of half of the post on here.

Many diverse approaching to prepping exist.
Stick around it will be fun ..

 

[TMT Tactical]

At it's start it was never intended to embrace everyone. The basic theory was birthed by an architect Don Stephens, and was written about and modified by: Mel Tappan and Bradford Angier and Col. Townsend Whelen and later put forth by Jeff Cooper, and many others. While not part of that group, Major Frederick Russell Burnham's theories of "Scout" and, his methods as "Scout" operations have influenced my prepping direction.

Well it certainly took a bit of prodding to get you to admit to any specifics. We now know who (authors) you believe set the stage for prepping and who you believe to be a guiding light for "Scout" operations. Now the next question is are you sure enough in their teaching to present their case against current, manipulated trends? If you REALLY believe they are the guiding light, then make a case for them, if not, maybe we should discount their potential and move on to more contemporary authors and methods.

It has been my experience that when somebody raises an issue (thread) but declines to debate and blames (Think Hillary) everybody and everything else for not responding, the actual reason is they do not have the facts or ability to debate. I don't believe for a moment old, invalidates methods. I think of the Apache or Yaqui American Indians, and you will see deadly tactics and survival methods. BUT and this is the major fly in the ointment, technology changes tactics and force multipliers. The question of survival really breaks down to how bad do those in powers want you and how poorly are you willing to live to stay alive. What many have mentioned, there is life and there is quality of life. Slaves survive but that is not life in my opinion, that is existing. I plan to survive and have a quality life. Will I use "Scouting" tactics or will I use technology? Will I use MY landscape to spot your arrival,several miles prior to you spotting my location? Your method may work or it may all be just BS sold to you 50 years ago. The bow and arrow were force multipliers over the spear but were a looser against the repeating firearms. 60 year old "Scouting" techniques may still work or may just be a fast way to get killed. So unless you care to share your knowledge, we will continue to make decisions based on current wisdom. See the point is, your method is just as untried / untested as our current methods. When have you been pursued and and hunted where your life depended on these scouting or other past survival methods. I am not talking about wilderness survival, we can get that from any dozen location and based on current available equipment. To my knowledge, there have not been any rebellions in Alaska or native upheavals or foreign invaders, so how does your knowledge provide you with a better chance to survive over our current methods?

Now to the social network testing. In my opinion, that is just a weak excuse to avoid participating in the thread you started. Nobody has called you any names or I would have been all over them, that is not allowed on this forum and is very strictly enforced. Nobody has attacked you personally, we have not even challenged your ideas, since you have not presented any. You have every opportunity to illuminate us with your beliefs, training or even your adventures. We are an open road for you to travel. you can share your knowledge or not, this forum with continue to thrive.

 

[Sourdough]

To my knowledge, there have not been any rebellions in Alaska or native upheavals or foreign invaders, so how does your knowledge provide you with a better chance to survive over our current methods?

You don't know a lot about Alaska history. Japan invaded and occupied Alaska in the 1940's. My dear friend Muktuk Marston was recruited to solve the problem........http://weaponsman.com/?p=35936

http://alaskool.org/projects/ak_military/men_of_tundra/men_of_tundra.htm

https://www.fallenheroesproject.org/united-states/muktuk-marston/

 

[ssonb]

Sigh .............Yes they did occupy some of the outlying Aleutian Islands, And of course all he can derive from the post by TMT or GA is something wrong, Never any answers just recriminations. There is only so much that you can do to placate an End of roader.

 

[Meerkat]

You don't know a lot about Alaska history. Japan invaded and occupied Alaska in the 1940's. My dear friend Muktuk Marston was recruited to solve the problem........http://weaponsman.com/?p=35936

http://alaskool.org/projects/ak_military/men_of_tundra/men_of_tundra.htm

https://www.fallenheroesproject.org/united-states/muktuk-marston/

Intersting, I never heard of Japan having control over any close neighbor or was Alaska already a state then ,I forgot?

 

[Sourdough]

There is only so much that you can do to placate an End of roader.

And......there is only so much that I can do to placate.........."Special Snowflakes"

 

[AdmiralD7S]

We get folks like Ol' VirginPrepper through on occasion who put up a bunch of posts (usually non-sequitur), proclaim most folks on the forum (sometimes all of them) don't know what they're doing, and provide the guiding light for us to follow. VP's a little different in that has not tried to convert us to any particular school of thought, but 2 of 3 isn't bad. Historically, they're kinda like fire crackers...they hiss for a little bit, one loud pop, and then they're gone in a flash.

 

[Sourdough]

If you believe that.........it should be very easy for you to point out examples: proclaim most folks on the forum (sometimes all of them) don't know what they're doing, and provide the guiding light for us to follow. What you will find if you look is that I have not done that. I have said the Prepping/Survival concept is not going in the right direction. I have never said anyone on this forum is doing it WRONG. Nor have I attempted to be a guiding light.

We get folks like Ol' VirginPrepper through on occasion who put up a bunch of posts (usually non-sequitur), proclaim most folks on the forum (sometimes all of them) don't know what they're doing, and provide the guiding light for us to follow. VP's a little different in that has not tried to convert us to any particular school of thought, but 2 of 3 isn't bad. Historically, they're kinda like fire crackers...they hiss for a little bit, one loud pop, and then they're gone in a flash.

 

[Sourdough]

and then they're gone in a flash.

If that would please you...........just say the words.

 

[TMT Tactical]

You don't know a lot about Alaska history. Japan invaded and occupied Alaska in the 1940's. My dear friend Muktuk Marston was recruited to solve the problem........http://weaponsman.com/?p=35936

http://alaskool.org/projects/ak_military/men_of_tundra/men_of_tundra.htm

https://www.fallenheroesproject.org/united-states/muktuk-marston/

VP, You are absolutely correct, I had forgotten about the minimal invasion in the Aleutian Islands. I also know this threat was more a scare/ diversionary tactic that any true threat to the mainland. Since my question was addressed to you, did this invasion test your training? Did you need to go on "Scouting " missions against the Japanese invaders? I was not making a point that no invasions ever happens. I was making a point that you personally have not had to repel any invading forces and thus had your training tested in a life or death scenario. Now so that this is not taken as a personal attack, I have never had any of my concepts tested by me personally, in a true life of death scenario. That is the fun and the danger of these posts. For every idea or concept and for every possible situation, there are million ideas on how it could be best handled. We as adults have to decide which idea or concept we BELIEVE will work best for us and our situation. While I see very little value in learning scouting methods, you would probably see very little value in duel septic system designs. While you have learned the best way to cache supplies in your area, I spent my time in designing trespasser detections systems. We all find our own methods an ways to deal.

 

[Sourdough]

I was making a point that you personally have not had to repel any invading forces and thus had your training tested in a life or death scenario.

Does seven "Grizzly" Bears in camp all at one time, when I have five hunters and one assistant guide I was charged with protecting count......??? Some would say that going into the thick'stuff to finish off a wounded 1,100 pound Brown Bear might count, especially is I have done it about 40 times. Does repelling bear that came into my cabin count......??? Does repelling three adult men who insisted I leave a fly-in location that I had a bear hunter count, I did have them at gun point for more then a hour, with a .458 Winchester Mag. pointed right at the gut of the main person. They were about ten feet away, two of them had two guns each, the other guy had one gun.

Does repelling a bear with a pan, that was half in the tent with myself and a client count. Does repelling a small pack of five wolves in my yard, that were attempting to get my flock of 30 geese and 11 turkeys count........??? Does repelling a cow moose that was attacking the 14 y/o son of a hunter I was guiding count. Every summer I repel black bears and grizzly bears from my garden, and feed storage shed, multiple times (last summer the closets chase was a 2.5 y/o black bear that was five feet away). Does repelling the angry father of a young lady, when he found me naked with her at her apartment count. Does being attacked by three (small and skinny) teenage punks outside a store in Anchorage, Alaska.......and repelling then violently count. Does being in two gun fights over the last 50 years count. Does beating a young man half to death while trying to save his life count. (Great story that one).

No I have never repelled a military army. But I have been charge by about 80 different bears, and several moose in the last 48 years, and repelled most, killed a lot of them, does that count.

 

[AdmiralD7S]

If that would please you...........just say the words.

That's the easy answer, but certainly not the one we like to see in our community. You seem to have a fair store of knowledge, and we'd like you to share it with us. but you have come on rather strong. I hesitate to speak for the community as a whole, but I do feel comfortable saying that your presence bears a striking resemblance to others who in the past have been ex-communicated.

May I recommend a gentler approach with less text that is capitalized, red, and in bold? I think the osmosis from your brain to our eyes would be easier that way, but the community will benefit from your presence regardless as long as you don't irk the mods too much.

I'm curious to see what your future in this forum holds. In the meantime, I'd like to offer you a pre-emptive olive branch in the hopes you'll stick around.

 

[TMT Tactical]

Ladies and Gentlemen: Please tone it down a few notches. Fun topic if we keep it fun. In other words this is being watched.

 

[The Innkeeper]

It is totally pointless for me to respond, in specific detail. It is pointless for me and it is pointless for the forum members. This is a closed group, and typical of closed groups, it has circled the wagons. I don't think this group realizes how closed it is. Now is that a problem for me......NO. Is that a problem for the group.......NO. This thread and a few of the other threads that I started have turned into classic studies of group dynamics. That is neither good or bad, it is just what is.

The group has embraced it's list of core beliefs. The group has it's leaders who attack and attempt to discredit anyone new who does not blindly subscribe to those core beliefs. Does any of that matter.......NO, again it is just what is. I have been under attack from the moment I joined this forum. Does that matter........NO, it simply is what is. And matters not to myself or the group. In fact it is a substantial part of what makes a group a group.

My prospective spans over 60 years in the study of prepping and survival, which is a longer period from which to have noticed the evolution of this prepping/survival movement. One could choose any point in the last 40,000 years to mark the start of the "Modern" prepping/survival movement. My being born in the mid 40's.......I choose the mid to late 50's as the birth of "Modern" prepping/survivalist movement.

At it's start it was never intended to embrace everyone. The basic theory was birthed by an architect Don Stephens, and was written about and modified by: Mel Tappan and Bradford Angier and Col. Townsend Whelen and later put forth by Jeff Cooper, and many others. While not part of that group, Major Frederick Russell Burnham's theories of "Scout" and, his methods as "Scout" operations have influenced my prepping direction.

For someone who shows a great deal of disdain for many thinks and pontificates from the great cosmic stream you don't say much. I haven't seen anyone matching the description of the group of leaders who attack those they disagree with.

I have to confess that to me, and I only speak for me, that you make a lot of noise, you prejudge a lot and you claim a lot but you never actually seem to say much and when pushed you always have an excuse. If you experience is what you say (and I have no reason to doubt it) and if you have some insights to add (you claim to have strong perspectives), I would love to hear them. If you just want to stir up dust and debris, I am not interested.

 

[Sourdough]

I'll be more then happy to leave the forum........if that would please you.

For someone who shows a great deal of disdain for many thinks and pontificates from the great cosmic stream you don't say much. I haven't seen anyone matching the description of the group of leaders who attack those they disagree with.

I have to confess that to me, and I only speak for me, that you make a lot of noise, you prejudge a lot and you claim a lot but you never actually seem to say much and when pushed you always have an excuse. If you experience is what you say (and I have no reason to doubt it) and if you have some insights to add (you claim to have strong perspectives), I would love to hear them. If you just want to stir up dust and debris, I am not interested.

 

[TMT Tactical]

Does seven "Grizzly" Bears in camp all at one time, when I have five hunters and one assistant guide I was charged with protecting count......??? Some would say that going into the thick'stuff to finish off a wounded 1,100 pound Brown Bear might count, especially is I have done it about 40 times. Does repelling bear that came into my cabin count......??? Does repelling three adult men who insisted I leave a fly-in location that I had a bear hunter count, I did have them at gun point for more then a hour, with a .458 Winchester Mag. pointed right at the gut of the main person. They were about ten feet away, two of them had two guns each, the other guy had one gun.

Does repelling a bear with a pan, that was half in the tent with myself and a client count. Does repelling a small pack of five wolves in my yard, that were attempting to get my flock of 30 geese and 11 turkeys count........??? Does repelling a cow moose that was attacking the 14 y/o son of a hunter I was guiding count. Every summer I repel black bears and grizzly bears from my garden, and feed storage shed, multiple times (last summer the closets chase was a 2.5 y/o black bear that was five feet away). Does repelling the angry father of a young lady, when he found me naked with her at her apartment count. Does being attacked by three (small and skinny) teenage punks outside a store in Anchorage, Alaska.......and repelling then violently count. Does being in two gun fights over the last 50 years count. Does beating a young man half to death while trying to save his life count. (Great story that one).

No I have never repelled a military army. But I have been charge by about 80 different bears, and several moose in the last 48 years, and repelled most, killed a lot of them, does that count.

No it does not count towards the topic of military tactics, where this post headed. See the point was not your ability to repel bears or moose or caribou (he may have a different thought on that topic) but was directed towards military tactics. Holding somebody at gun point also does not qualify your as a military tactician. While bears can certainly kill or seriously injure a person, I have never known one to stand off at 1,000 yards and shoot at you. I have never known a moose to set a trip fall to get you off it's trail. I am absolutely positive you have tremendous wilderness field craft and have enormous knowledge of the local critters but that does not qualify you as a military tactician or an expert on the proper direction of modern day prepping. I am not an expert on modern day prepping, In fact I don"t know if there is an expert on modern day prepping. Too many possible scenario's for one person to cover. The day of just rural type prepping is gone. Today, there has to be plans for urban, suburban, rural and then wilderness. In your location you will have more bear to deal with. An urban prepper will have to deal with gangs or hungry snowflakes.

I enjoy your posts and think they do provide some alternate methods or processes but they are certainly subject to debate, as is all posts here. Now I have requested ALL to tone it down a notch and I hope ALL will respect that request. And yes, I am authorized to make those requests. Anybody tough enough to deal with 80 different bear encounters, should be able to politely deal with dissenting comments.

 

[Flight]

I just read everything in this thread. VP said "
Has "Prepping for Survival" gone in the WRONG direction......???"
I'm thinking no one has actually asked VP what direction should survival look like. In his words. I (think) know what it means to me and my family (my situation is very different then many here) but i am curious what it means to VP. So Vp im asking you. What does prepping for survival to you mean.

 

[Flight]

I'll be more then happy to leave the forum........if that would please you.

Well I for one hope you stay. For the simple reason of I like your posted. The make me think about how might I be able to do something (whatever it is) better.

 

[Grizzleyette___Adams]

I just read everything in this thread. VP said "
I'm thinking no one has actually asked VP what direction should survival look like. In his words.

Ha, I think both of you missed it in the second post of this thread:

I wrote that second post, in reference to the OP and the thread title, "Has "Prepping for Survival" gone in the WRONG direction......???"

I like the illustration of our tests not being graded on a Bell Curve. I am interested in what you think the right direction could be.

I think that much of the mainstream Prep/Survival concept is temporary, woefully inadequate and NOT sustainable. What will the average person who subscribes to popular concepts do when the “last beans, bullets and bandaids” are gone? Hope that things will return to normal? To be more sustainable and adaptable to potential new normals, I am constantly researching and experimenting with skills and SHTF backup plans that are backups to plans A, B and C, some of which include primitive living skills. (I plan on starting a number of threads soon about this, because like the old saying goes...“iron sharpens iron.”)

 

[The Innkeeper]

Ladies and Gentlemen: Please tone it down a few notches. Fun topic if we keep it fun. In other words this is being watched.

thanks for the timely rebuke, sometimes I need to be reminded to bite my tongue

 

[Flight]

Ha, I think both of you missed it in the second post of this thread:

I wrote that second post, in reference to the OP and the thread title, "Has "Prepping for Survival" gone in the WRONG direction......???"

:green man:

 

[Sourdough]

but that does not qualify you as a military tactician or an expert on the proper direction of modern day prepping

Well.........could you please show me where I stated that I was a qualified military tactician.......Please show me where you got that idea. People on this forum are constantly making up that I stated something......that I not only never stated, I never inferred the things I have been accused of stating.

I might also ask where I stated that I was an "EXPERT" on the direction of modern day prepping........really please show me where I stated that.

The closest you will find is that I have clearly stated on several posts "I believe that the "Prepping and Survival" concept is going in the wrong direction". I feel that stating an opinion, is standard practice on forums. I never stated I was an expert. I am pretty sure that until this post I have never ever used the word Expert, in any context.

 

[Sourdough]

What does prepping for survival to you mean.

Are you ask for me, what do I think that I should do........??? Or are you asking something else....???

 

[Flight]

Are you ask for me, what do I think that I should do........??? Or are you asking something else....???

Ok sorry did not come out right (getting tired) and I'm not good with words. I had to reread title and it just dawned on me that your asking us for our opinions on your question of "Has "Prepping for Survival" gone in the WRONG direction......???"
Well i guess it really depends on the person and their situation that they have at that moment of time.

 

[TMT Tactical]

Well.........could you please show me where I stated that I was a qualified military tactician.......Please show me where you got that idea. People on this forum are constantly making up that I stated something......that I not only never stated, I never inferred the things I have been accused of stating.

I might also ask where I stated that I was an "EXPERT" on the direction of modern day prepping........really please show me where I stated that.

The closest you will find is that I have clearly stated on several posts "I believe that the "Prepping and Survival" concept is going in the wrong direction". I feel that stating an opinion, is standard practice on forums. I never stated I was an expert. I am pretty sure that until this post I have never ever used the word Expert, in any context.

In your post #15: While not part of that group, Major Frederick Russell Burnham's theories of "Scout" and, his methods as "Scout" operations have influenced my prepping direction. You brought the subject of "Scouting and Scouting Operations" into the discussion. I responding in my post #36 : 60 year old "Scouting" techniques may still work or may just be a fast way to get killed. So unless you care to share your knowledge, we will continue to make decisions based on current wisdom. See the point is, your method is just as untried / untested as our current methods. When have you been pursued and and hunted where your life depended on these scouting or other past survival methods. I am not talking about wilderness survival, we can get that from any dozen location and based on current available equipment. To my knowledge, there have not been any rebellions in Alaska or native upheavals or foreign invaders, so how does your knowledge provide you with a better chance to survive over our current methods? Your response was to side track about my failure to remember the minimal Japanese invasion, that had absolutely nothing to do with the question regarding your personal test of these Scouting techniques.

I really wish for you keep posting but I also want you to understand, in my opinion (NOT AS A STAFF MEMBER), there is nobody who is essential to the forum, myself included. If you feel you need to run off to a "SAFE SPACE" and leave the forum, then that is certainly your choice and your choice alone. Nobody has attacked you and only a few have actually questioned your posts. Several have tried to help you understand the questions in many members minds. I am sure that many have enjoyed several of your posts, myself included but I do have to admit I get weary of the constants offering to vacate the forum. I would think a true Mountain Man would stay and fine a proper method to communicate and share his experiences. The "Special Snowflakes" run off to their SAFE SPACE and complain about all the nasty old forums and blogs that just do not understand them or appreciate their true value. Mountain Man or Special Snowflake?

 

[SheepDog]

Ask yourself this:
"In my location am I more likely to see challenges by people or nature?"
In either of my locations fierce animal attacks will not likely be a problem. In both of my locations challenges by people will be more of a concern. I live far enough out that urban gangs will not be a big threat but there are those who live within ten or so miles that might present a challenge to my animals and gardens and probably to me and my family. Will militant groups have me as a target? I doubt it but I have to be prepared for that possibility. I may have to fend off feral dog packs but mostly I have to protect my garden and animals from the standard predators. I am not close enough to any major population that would move out looking for plunder. By the time they get to me they are going to be desperate for food and water but well worn and tired. I will know they are coming long before they know where I am.
If I lived in the Australian outback I would face different challenges - the same is true if I lived in the Alaskan wilderness or in or near a major metropolitan area. There are always challenges but your locale dictates what they are likely to be.