Grid Down Preps

[Morgan101]

In some areas we would be fine. In others not so much. Water would not be an issue. We have several sources plus our own catchment system and means to purify. As long as we could stay in our house shelter would not be an issue. In cold weather we could modify one room where we would live and stay warm. Not as comfortable as you would like, but safe. Security would not be an issue. Food and cooking/preparation would more than likely have to be done outside, be it on the BBQ pit or an open fire pit. How well prepared we are would depend on how long the grid was down. Firewood would not be an issue. We have ample supply, and means to harvest more. How long game would be around or the lakes and rivers get fished out remains to be seen. Right now there is plenty. How long it lasts when the entire population is tapping into that resource is anybody's guess? Anyone have an idea on how long wild game count be counted on as a resource?

Prescription meds are always a huge concern. Without them my wife would not last more than a few months. The rest of what was done, or what we did wouldn't matter.

 

[Alaskajohn]

I take this scenario to an extreme level and prepare for the grid to go down and be down forever . From experience know what we miss the most is our water system as we have our own well , but the well runs off electricity . Without electricity gas pumps at stations are down , so fuel for vehicles to fetch anything including water is a no go . A few days without water and the population die off begins . Our solution is we have a spring that we can walk to pulling a solid rubber tire hand cart that I have ready for the scenario as well as water jugs that fit it . Overhead hooks above my bath tub to hang a rubber camping out shower bag for showers is ready . ---- I will try to keep this short , as on this subject I could write a long time on our preparations . But it includes wood cook stove , wood heater , two man wood cutting saws , propane lights hooked to a 250 gal. tank , a wood burning walk in smokehouse and a forever food supply .

You might want to add a well bucket to your preps for grid down. They work, and you can find well buckets cheaper than this one.

Lehman's Own Galvanized Well Bucket

 

[poltiregist]

What a lot of people don't realize , but I suppose most of our members do is without electricity the county or state supplied water system that flows through pipes will soon stop as the massive water grid system depends on electricity to pump the water . They likely have liquid fuel generators for backup during an emergency , but without electricity that liquid fuel will soon run out in just a matter of days . Water will cease to flow into homes . Think about it , how many homes in your area have a water supply if those pipes stop flowing ? The thirst driven refugees will converge on natural water sources such as lakes and rivers . There at the banks of the water will become squatter towns made up of desperate displaced refugees , all desperately trying to survive on what food source they can find . I would expect starvation , robbery and murder as their flesh disintegrates from lack of food . All this caused by an electrical loss such as a solar flair , E.M.P. or computer cyber attack . There are bad actor countries that would gleefully instigate this on a country they dislike . ---- Lets backtrack a few years . Do you remember the attack on a electrical station in California with a shadowy group firing bullets into vital infrastructure of the facility to disrupt its electrical purpose ? What most don't know , at the same time North Korea positioned a satellite in the correct orbit for an E.M.P. attack over New York city . All information pointed toward this satellite being E.M.P capable . If detonated the satellite would have destroyed the electrical grid over the entire Eastern portion of the U.S. for many years . The California grid attack appeared to be a coordinated effort on the western side of the U.S. . Perhaps just a technical malfunction prevented the satellite from being detonated .

 

[Pearl]

In some areas we would be fine. In others not so much. Water would not be an issue. We have several sources plus our own catchment system and means to purify. As long as we could stay in our house shelter would not be an issue. In cold weather we could modify one room where we would live and stay warm. Not as comfortable as you would like, but safe. Security would not be an issue. Food and cooking/preparation would more than likely have to be done outside, be it on the BBQ pit or an open fire pit. How well prepared we are would depend on how long the grid was down. Firewood would not be an issue. We have ample supply, and means to harvest more. How long game would be around or the lakes and rivers get fished out remains to be seen. Right now there is plenty. How long it lasts when the entire population is tapping into that resource is anybody's guess? Anyone have an idea on how long wild game count be counted on as a resource?

Prescription meds are always a huge concern. Without them my wife would not last more than a few months. The rest of what was done, or what we did wouldn't matter.

Some of my thoughts on wild game. Of course depends on your area! You could catch and breed some game to keep a source available, but they too would require food and water. Don't think there would be an ample supply if faced with drought. Location location location!

 

[Alaskajohn]

What a lot of people don't realize , but I suppose most of our members do is without electricity the county or state supplied water system that flows through pipes will soon stop as the massive water grid system depends on electricity to pump the water . They likely have liquid fuel generators for backup during an emergency , but without electricity that liquid fuel will soon run out in just a matter of days . Water will cease to flow into homes . Think about it , how many homes in your area have a water supply if those pipes stop flowing ? The thirst driven refugees will converge on natural water sources such as lakes and rivers . There at the banks of the water will become squatter towns made up of desperate displaced refugees , all desperately trying to survive on what food source they can find . I would expect starvation , robbery and murder as their flesh disintegrates from lack of food . All this caused by an electrical loss such as a solar flair , E.M.P. or computer cyber attack . There are bad actor countries that would gleefully instigate this on a country they dislike . ---- Lets backtrack a few years . Do you remember the attack on a electrical station in California with a shadowy group firing bullets into vital infrastructure of the facility to disrupt its electrical purpose ? What most don't know , at the same time North Korea positioned a satellite in the correct orbit for an E.M.P. attack over New York city . All information pointed toward this satellite being E.M.P capable . If detonated the satellite would have destroyed the electrical grid over the entire Eastern portion of the U.S. for many years . The California grid attack appeared to be a coordinated effort on the western side of the U.S. . Perhaps just a technical malfunction prevented the satellite from being detonated .

Add to that list of worries a Carrington event such as what happened in 1859 and 1921, plus a couple of near misses since then.

Point is, as you point out, we are way to reliant on electricity and it is a complex infrastructure that has vulnerabilities. Up until recently, most of my preps have involved non electrical technology. But I’ve recently gotten into solar as a backup, knowing that I don’t get sun for about 2 months of the year. While I have added a useful backup, I also have added some vulnerability with that backup.

 

[Sourdough]

Location location location!

There is a "Certified NUTJOB" on this forum who is constantly "raving" about that".
That "Silly'wabbit" seems convinced that Location is the single most important factor in Prepping for Survival. "Especially" advanced prepping for survival.

 

[Alaskajohn]

There is a "Certified NUTJOB" on this forum who is constantly "raving" about that".
That "Silly'wabbit" seems convinced that Location is the single most important factor in Prepping for Survival. "Especially" advanced prepping for survival.

I agree completely. While there is no perfect location, certain locations are better than others, and some locations are simply bad. The trick is, there are reasons that some of the better locations have few to no people living there. If one can solve for those reasons, they are better situated than most for dealing with what’s coming.

As Ol Remus always advocated, stay away from crowds. Bad locations by definition.

 

[Pearl]

There is a "Certified NUTJOB" on this forum who is constantly "raving" about that".
That "Silly'wabbit" seems convinced that Location is the single most important factor in Prepping for Survival. "Especially" advanced prepping for survival.

My point was, if you live in town you do not have access to wildlife for food or stock tanks, creeks, and streams for water!!! Most of us country folk can hunt, fish, and survive as compared to city slicks!!

 

[SheepDog]

Location IS an important consideration for survival or we would not be concerned about survival on the Moon or Mars. Closer to home it would be nearly impossible to survive in Antarctica without the international support.
While those are extreme examples choosing an area that you are more accustomed to is a big advantage.I can live in the desert or in the forest but I would prefer the forest. The ocean beaches are decent as long as you aren't living in a subduction zone.

 

[SheepDog]

Pearl,
You aren't a nut job. I thought he was talking about himself...

 

[Sourdough]

Pearl,
You aren't a nut job. I thought he was talking about himself...

"YES".......100% Accurate.... dancing chicken

 

[Pearl]

Pearl,
You aren't a nut job. I thought he was talking about himself...

Was more worried about the location thing! Can I use this to show my family and friends that I'm 'ok' lol!!!

 

[Pearl]

"YES".......100% Accurate.... dancing chicken

Ok, I'll share my squirrel stew and creek water with if things get worse.

 

[mamo]

Nickel Iron batteries will last 20 years - but their performance to weight ratio is about the worst of any battery.

LiFePO4 batteries last 15 years and are a very high performance battery in most other regards too (including light weight).

Are nickel iron batteries heavier than lead acid batteries?

 

[Amish Heart]

Newbies looking to get out of the city also need to look at climate locations that they can adapt to. It's hard enough for city people to go rural, but coming from California to an area that has cold winters and bugs and snakes and such that they are not used to can send them running. Romanticizing "growing your own food" when you don't know how, raising animals for food that all become "pets"....

 

[Hardcalibres]

Are nickel iron batteries heavier than lead acid batteries?

They are much heavier per unit of specific power.

Lead Acid are 180 W/kg
Nickel Iron are 100 W/kg

Energy Density by mass

Lead Acid are 30-40 Wh/kg
Nickel Iron are 19-25 Wh/kg

Nickel Iron also have a steeply curved relationship between State of charge and Output voltage that makes using the output (which ranges over a wide spectrum of voltage) challenging.

They also have slow charge time and are prone to run away heat production during the outgassing stage of charging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_commercial_battery_types

 

[dunewalker]

"Grid-down" preps are only transitory. If the grid, etc stays down, we'll have to transition away from electric devices within a relatively short period of time, say 5-10 years. Same with stored foods. "Earth Abides" by George Stewart is a good story of that transition, written over 70 years ago.

 

[Bacpacker]

"Grid-down" preps are only transitory. If the grid, etc stays down, we'll have to transition away from electric devices within a relatively short period of time, say 5-10 years. Same with stored foods. "Earth Abides" by George Stewart is a good story of that transition, written over 70 years ago.

Absolute truth. Hand tools are a must. Knowledge of how to all the work by hand.

 

[Hardcalibres]

"Grid-down" preps are only transitory. If the grid, etc stays down, we'll have to transition away from electric devices within a relatively short period of time, say 5-10 years. Same with stored foods. "Earth Abides" by George Stewart is a good story of that transition, written over 70 years ago.

They say that time flies when you are having fun - and I guess the converse also applies.

The first 5-10 years of any grid down collapse will be a very difficult time, that most humans alive at the time of the collapse will not survive. For those that do, those ten years will feel like an eternity. Most will pack more action into that ten years than there was in their whole life up to that time.

While I do have a lot of tools, skills and resources that don't rely upon electricity, I will be using the electricity powered tools and resources that I have, to try to be one of the few people who make it to the ten year anniversary.

....and LiFePO4 batteries will last about 15 years, which is quite a long transitory time.

 

[hashbrown]

They say that time flies when you are having fun - and I guess the converse also applies.

The first 5-10 years of any grid down collapse will be a very difficult time, that most humans alive at the time of the collapse will not survive. For those that do, those ten years will feel like an eternity. Most will pack more action into that ten years than there was in their whole life up to that time.

While I do have a lot of tools, skills and resources that don't rely upon electricity, I will be using the electricity powered tools and resources that I have, to try to be one of the few people who make it to the ten year anniversary.

....and LiFePO4 batteries will last about 15 years, which is quite a long transitory time.

It would be a dog eat dog type of scenario, I'm still a pretty rough old dog and way more prepared than most but being in my 50s I'm not nearly the same man I was when I was 30. I figure if things really go south it will be a young mans game.

 

[mamo]

They are much heavier per unit of specific power.

Lead Acid are 180 W/kg
Nickel Iron are 100 W/kg

Energy Density by mass

Lead Acid are 30-40 Wh/kg
Nickel Iron are 19-25 Wh/kg

Nickel Iron also have a steeply curved relationship between State of charge and Output voltage that makes using the output (which ranges over a wide spectrum of voltage) challenging.

They also have slow charge time and are prone to run away heat production during the outgassing stage of charging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_commercial_battery_types

Thank you for this info, DH has never mentioned these 2 types so I'll pass it on.
He's tried different ones with certain claims and it's an interstate from a dealer he goes back to after those didn't meet the claims.
He does grumble about the weight of the lead acid ones, so don't think he'll want to look at heavier ones, as he has them in an insulated room of the PV shed and has to carry them ~30' from the front to the back. And I doubt there's room for any more in the wood battery box (built for accident containment).
We're set for how long this last set (January 2021) holds, which is usually 4-5 years, but perhaps new tech 15y ones will have a lower $$$ then (although I doubt it).

 

[Biggkidd]

It would be a dog eat dog type of scenario, I'm still a pretty rough old dog and way more prepared than most but being in my 50s I'm not nearly the same man I was when I was 30. I figure if things really go south it will be a young mans game.

Don't jump to conclusions grasshopper! lmao

No but seriously us 50 year olds have a whole lot of knowledge the young folk don't. Just like our grandparents knew a whole lot we don't. They might have us beat on physical abilities but we know things they never even thought of. We grew up outside learning they played play station....... and wore man buns !!! Plus we've done hard work manually they'd never dream of doing. Just like the old folks before us did a lot more than we did. LIFE GOT EASY WE ALL GOT SOFTER

 

[Hardcalibres]

Don't jump to conclusions grasshopper! lmao

No but seriously us 50 year olds have a whole lot of knowledge the young folk don't. Just like our grandparents knew a whole lot we don't. They might have us beat on physical abilities but we know things they never even thought of. We grew up outside learning they played play station....... and wore man buns !!! Plus we've done hard work manually they'd never dream of doing. Just like the old folks before us did a lot more than we did. LIFE GOT EASY WE ALL GOT SOFTER

Agreed - work smarter not harder.

It is amazing what I can get done in a few hours spent in the air conditioned cab of my tractor.

I store enough fuel for that machine to last well beyond a decade - and diesel does last that long.

 

[hashbrown]

Yeah, but if theres running involved........

 

[Aerindel]

I plan to use some electricity for decades after the grid goes down. It just depends on HOW MUCH you need.

Things like headlamps I would have been a superpower a few generations ago. Its almost trivial to stock enough rechargeable batteries and solar cells so that your grandchildren will have light at night.

To have all the fresh, clean drinkingwater I need in my house, I need to burn two gallons of propane every six months.

If I want baths, showers, cooking, etc, that becomes two gallons every month.

So say, 24 gallons a YEAR, for NORMAL household water for me.

One 250 gallon tank....and I have indoor plumbing for years, or risk free drinking water.....for a lifetime if I use surface water for washing needs.

There is no need to give up on electricity in long term prepping.

It's just a matter of thinking of electricity differently, and using it for the truly revolutionary things it can do, rather than the way we use it currently.

This really applies to ALL modern tech. You don't have to give it up, you just have to use it wisely.

You don't drive your truck everyday, but if you have stored fuel for a thousand miles, that could be a trip to the coast to trade for 3/4s of a ton of dried fish that feeds your entire family for a couple years when the hunting is bad. It could be monthly trips five miles down to 'Barter Town" for YEARS.

Even if your vehicle never leaves YOUR OWN PROPERTY, just being able to move a thousand pounds from one building to another that easily is a super power they would have killed for a hundred years ago.

We will be a technological society forever in even the most extreme disasters. A thousand years after the grid goes out, people will still be making use of our current technological base, even if not a single new battery or powerline is ever made.

This is why I'm less interesting in bushcrafting, and more interesting in what I can do with a old rusted out Prius.

 

[Biggkidd]

Yeah, but if theres running involved........

Yeah that ain't happening here either and I'm to tired for fist fights so I have been carrying the same .45 for a decade next spring. As I've taught a few people around here it's good out to 100+ yards with a little practice once in a while. Won my fair share of money with it too!

 

[Pearl]

I plan to use some electricity for decades after the grid goes down. It just depends on HOW MUCH you need.

Things like headlamps I would have been a superpower a few generations ago. Its almost trivial to stock enough rechargeable batteries and solar cells so that your grandchildren will have light at night.

To have all the fresh, clean drinkingwater I need in my house, I need to burn two gallons of propane every six months.

If I want baths, showers, cooking, etc, that becomes two gallons every month.

So say, 24 gallons a YEAR, for NORMAL household water for me.

One 250 gallon tank....and I have indoor plumbing for years, or risk free drinking water.....for a lifetime if I use surface water for washing needs.

There is no need to give up on electricity in long term prepping.

It's just a matter of thinking of electricity differently, and using it for the truly revolutionary things it can do, rather than the way we use it currently.

This really applies to ALL modern tech. You don't have to give it up, you just have to use it wisely.

You don't drive your truck everyday, but if you have stored fuel for a thousand miles, that could be a trip to the coast to trade for 3/4s of a ton of dried fish that feeds your entire family for a couple years when the hunting is bad. It could be monthly trips five miles down to 'Barter Town" for YEARS.

Even if your vehicle never leaves YOUR OWN PROPERTY, just being able to move a thousand pounds from one building to another that easily is a super power they would have killed for a hundred years ago.

We will be a technological society forever in even the most extreme disasters. A thousand years after the grid goes out, people will still be making use of our current technological base, even if not a single new battery or powerline is ever made.

This is why I'm less interesting in bushcrafting, and more interesting in what I can do with a old rusted out Prius.

Awesome

 

[viking]

We have a mind set about the solar system I built, when the freezers and refrigerators are empty, candles and oil lamps will be fine, the availability of standby power is nice but whatever the future brings, we'll live with.

 

[Alaskajohn]

I plan to use some electricity for decades after the grid goes down. It just depends on HOW MUCH you need.

Things like headlamps I would have been a superpower a few generations ago. Its almost trivial to stock enough rechargeable batteries and solar cells so that your grandchildren will have light at night.

To have all the fresh, clean drinkingwater I need in my house, I need to burn two gallons of propane every six months.

If I want baths, showers, cooking, etc, that becomes two gallons every month.

So say, 24 gallons a YEAR, for NORMAL household water for me.

One 250 gallon tank....and I have indoor plumbing for years, or risk free drinking water.....for a lifetime if I use surface water for washing needs.

There is no need to give up on electricity in long term prepping.

It's just a matter of thinking of electricity differently, and using it for the truly revolutionary things it can do, rather than the way we use it currently.

This really applies to ALL modern tech. You don't have to give it up, you just have to use it wisely.

You don't drive your truck everyday, but if you have stored fuel for a thousand miles, that could be a trip to the coast to trade for 3/4s of a ton of dried fish that feeds your entire family for a couple years when the hunting is bad. It could be monthly trips five miles down to 'Barter Town" for YEARS.

Even if your vehicle never leaves YOUR OWN PROPERTY, just being able to move a thousand pounds from one building to another that easily is a super power they would have killed for a hundred years ago.

We will be a technological society forever in even the most extreme disasters. A thousand years after the grid goes out, people will still be making use of our current technological base, even if not a single new battery or powerline is ever made.

This is why I'm less interesting in bushcrafting, and more interesting in what I can do with a old rusted out Prius.

You lost me at “Prius.” Substitute that with a rusted out old Subaru.

Actually, I am warming up to your line of thinking over the last year and have made some investments to enable the use of technology to help this old man live a bit more comfortably if things turn south, knowing that most everything will still suck. And suck badly.

 

[Morgan101]

I will ask the question because to me it is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. What is the plan for long term or grid down medical attention? I am not talking about bumps and bruises, or a head cold. How many here either yourself or close family, rely on maintenance medication, or medical equipment? I am not looking for answers or anything personal. Just question yourself. What are the plans if the grid goes down? How will you handle a severe mechanical injury i.e. a broken bone or torn ligaments? How will you handle disease?

How will you deal with diminished physical skills? When your eyes and ears go bad? When you can't chop wood and haul water? When arthritis makes it painful to get out of bed in the morning? There are a million questions that I haven't even thought of.

It won't be such a bad thing to be in a town, or near other people who can assist. Where you can barter knowledge for physical skills. Where professional medical attention is more readily available. I can say for myself I have to stay somewhere where medical attention is available. Moving to a rural environment is not an option.