Understanding Narcissism and Narcissists

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Weedygarden said:
Another post in one of the FB groups about narcissism.

" We were learning about Narcs in my Psychology class, I found it really interesting, but did you know that 6.2% of adults display NPD?? And 75% of these characteristics are found in MEN?? I was surprised, but I guess it's because I'm used to dealing with a Narc mother. I'm also surprised the percentage is so high! I wonder what the statistic is for those who are narcs that are parents, I feel like it would be high because it gives them a way to be controlling..."

I would have thought that women would be more likely to be narcissists, but maybe because it is more common in women that I know than men.
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In a politically correct society, of course men will be the vast majority of those with any kind of negative trait. That said, I've known enough men that fit the description, I won't argue about the numbers.

I think the politically correct bias in our education system excuses narc behavior in women. I know that younger women tend to think it's ok to strike a man, to manipulate men for money, and to play mental games with men to get their own way. If the behavior is ok for women, then they can't be narcs, right?
 
Spikedriver said:
In a politically correct society, of course men will be the vast majority of those with any kind of negative trait. That said, I've known enough men that fit the description, I won't argue about the numbers.

I think the politically correct bias in our education system excuses narc behavior in women. I know that younger women tend to think it's ok to strike a man, to manipulate men for money, and to play mental games with men to get their own way. If the behavior is ok for women, then they can't be narcs, right?
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I don't disagree with you, but it is not what I thought. Perhaps my thinking comes from my exposure. I also hope that these things that I post do not come across as me hating on men or attempting to point out that men are more flawed. I don't believe that at all. I have seen narcissism in both men and women. I imagine that when our society was much more controlled by men, that men were more likely to be narcissistic, but women could have shown narcissistic traits as well.
 
Weedygarden said:
I don't disagree with you, but it is not what I thought. Perhaps my thinking comes from my exposure. I also hope that these things that I post do not come across as me hating on men or attempting to point out that men are more flawed. I don't believe that at all. I have seen narcissism in both men and women. I imagine that when our society was much more controlled by men, that men were more likely to be narcissistic, but women could have shown narcissistic traits as well.
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You're probably not wrong. And I'm sure men are more violent and threatening with their narc behavior. I think women tend to be more subtle.

I don't think you're a man hater, any more than I'm a woman hater. We all tend to view things through the lens of our own experiences...
 
Spikedriver said:
You're probably not wrong. And I'm sure men are more violent and threatening with their narc behavior. I think women tend to be more subtle.

I don't think you're a man hater, any more than I'm a woman hater. We all tend to view things through the lens of our own experiences...
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I do think that we can be jaded by our experiences. I think it is also important to get out of our own heads and think about the other person or group sometimes.

I have watched some movies set a couple centuries ago, and women had little choice about their lives. I think this exists in some cultures and countries in the world now. Men have little choice in those situations. They all have to participate in life in the socially acceptable manner.

I had a roommate from Morocco, who met a man from Morocco when going to school in the U.S. whom she eventually married. They talked about him doing the dishes, because she worked outside the home as much as he did. They were very careful that neither of their families were aware of husband's housekeeping help. There they were, both caught in a cultural situation where he wasn't supposed to do any housework.
 
https://ragingfemale.com/narcissist...1RPLbo8WErqsbOXZDuHvETHvMizQnsRMKUmEu2lDhziz4
THE TWO SIDES OF A NARCISSISTIC GRANDMOTHER AND THE BEHAVIORS TO EXPECT

When your the daughter of a narcissistic mother as soon as you have children (without realizing it), you’ve created a new kind of monster, the narcissistic grandmother.

I had a wonderful grandma, and I loved everything about her. She loved me more than my own mother ever could. I thought my mother would love her grandchildren the same way, but my children didn’t get the same kind of grandma I had.

A narcissistic mother continues to abuse her children all through adulthood and into the next generation unless or until we make it stop.

I didn’t care what that woman did to me, but when she came after my kids, I had no choice but to end the relationship. Not only has your mother tortured you your whole life, but now she has every intention of doing it to the next generation too.

Most parents learn from their mistakes and try to be the greatest grandparent of all time.

Narcissistic grandmothers have a much more sinister plan in mind.
These mothers are not capable of loving their grandchildren anymore than their own children. They have learned nothing from past mistakes or behaviors and will do everything in their power to undermine and destroy your relationship with your child.

They don’t understand love. They don’t care how much they emotionally damage their grandchildren. Why would they?

They never cared about their own children, and they see your children as leverage to hurt you.

She only sees them as tools to be used, manipulated, and controlled.
If the narcissistic grandma has the opportunity to turn her grandchildren against their mother, she’ll do it.

Normal loving grandmas would do everything in their power to strengthen the bonds between mother and child because they know how important it is for a child’s growth and development. Only a sick and disturbed person would do the opposite.

They don’t care about what’s best for your child.

They only care about what makes them feel more important, and if at the expense of your child’s wellbeing, a narcissistic grandmother is okay with that. She doesn’t see your child as a living, breathing little human being. There is no compassion or empathy, and she’ll do to them exactly what she’s done to you.

Narcissistic grandmothers usually go one of two ways.
She will either completely ignore you and your children, or she’ll try to enmesh herself in your life in the most suffocating ways. Either way, she will never be supportive in any way.

A narcissistic grandmother will ignore you because deep down, she isn’t capable of caring:
  • She’ll never offer to help if you are sick or injured.
  • She won’t offer to take the kids for the weekend.
  • She’ll intentionally forget birthdays.
  • She won’t call to say ‘hi, how are you’ or ‘what can I do to help?’
  • If your children are very little, they may not have any idea who the strange woman is.
This option is the best, even though it doesn’t feel like it. You want your children to have a loving grandmother, every child deserves to have loving grandparents to spoil them.

But a narcissistic parent?

They don’t even know how to be that kind of grandparent.

A narcissistic grandparent is not anything a child deserves or should have to endure.
They are not capable of giving love to their grandchildren and will only use them to cause problems that would otherwise not exist.

I know how much a good mother loves her children, and you think this comes as naturally to everyone else as it does to you. Under normal circumstances, you would be absolutely right.

In this case, their absence is a blessing in disguise and is absolutely in your child’s best interest. The second option is much much worse.

A narcissistic grandmother will try to turn your children against you.
This is called grandparent grooming. When a grandparent exhibits behaviors causing a child to lose trust in their parent, that’s abuse.

Can you imagine anything so horrifying?

Having your own mother do everything in her power to destroy the family you made.
  • She will undermine your authority in front of your children.
  • She will attack you in front of your children.
  • If your child doesn’t behave the way she wants them to, she’ll turn it into a nightmare for you and your child.
  • If you have more than one child, she’ll choose a favorite and a bad one and pit them against each other.
  • If you don’t allow her access to her grandchildren, she’ll call the cops, CPS, the paster, and tell anyone who will listen what a terrible mother you are.
  • It’s a known tactic of narcissistic grandmothers to try and take custody of their grandchildren just to hurt their adult child.
  • She will go to any length to destroy your success as a mother so she can feel superior.
You don’t know what you’re up against. This is a ragingly jealous woman who knows deep down she isn’t a good mother, and she will hate you for loving your children. She will despise you for being a good mother.

You’re probably thinking ‘this is sick’ and you’d be right.
It is sick. And disturbing. And above all else, it makes no sense.

It serves no purpose other than to make your narcissistic mother feel better about herself. She’ll do all of this for such a meaningless and empty result.

I can’t quite grasp it. I can’t wrap my head around it, and believe me, I’m trying, but it’s so unbelievable and unexplainable I can’t comprehend it. My brain can’t go there or even imagine it.

A narcissist can’t get any pleasure from happiness.
Seeing someone fail and feel terrible about themselves is the only way they get supply. It’s the only way they have to make themselves feel better. The only purpose a narcissist has in life is to cause pain and suffering to others.

That’s it.

There is no more to it.

This is the place where my brain just stops and has no answers and no solutions other than no contact.

You are not a bad parent for protecting your children from toxic people, no matter who they are.
There is some guilt associated with cutting off a toxic grandparent.

However, the guilt will be a thousand times worse if you allow it to continue. Many women have lost their children before they even realized what was happening, and it’s one of the deepest kinds of pain.

If the narcissistic grandparent succeeds in manipulating their grandchildren, it’s a new level of pain and despair for everyone involved.

The rules of society don’t apply to you and your situation.
When dealing with a narcissistic mother or father, you’re not playing the same game of life as everyone else.

Society tells you:
  • You only have one mother.
  • You’re adults, and you can work this out.
  • Family is everything.
  • Your mother loves you.
  • She’s only trying to do what’s best for you.
None of these things are true for the child of a narcissist.

As a matter of fact, these are the worst things to say to someone trapped in a narcissistic family.

Final thoughts…
In my generation, no one saw the narcissistically abused child.

Today we are in the millions.

It’s possible narcissists are created by their parents, and we don’t want our future generations to suffer.

You are your child’s only protection, and you are the only one who can stop this abuse from happening because it’s invisible to everyone else. Not everyone can go no contact when the narcissist is a family member, and there are a few alternatives to help you handle their behavior.
 
I’ve watched this thread since you started it @Weedygarden . After reading the posts a few things became obvious. I’m now aware of more than one person who is clearly a narcissist. One I’ve known for decades the others not so much.

The more I learned about their traits the easier it became to spot them and predict their actions. Anyone paying attention knows what they are going to do in any given situation, they are so obvious. The gaslighting chart you posted is so very revealing. There is nothing I can do to make things better. I’ve tried reason and logic in the past, the very things a narcissist hates the most.

So, thanks for this thread. It has been very educational. But I’m left with the same questions people have probably been asking for millennia. Why? Do narcissists really think no one can see through them? Are they delusional or just stupid? Or a combination of both?

For decades I’ve put a few people who have crossed my path into a category I call “Chaos People”. Where ever they go, there is chaos. I now see there is a subset of this group who are narcissists. And… there are degrees of narcissism I think. Still, if it’s possible, it's best to get these people out of your life, they never do anything to better others.
 
Peanut said:
I’ve watched this thread since you started it @Weedygarden . After reading the posts a few things became obvious. I’m now aware of more than one person who is clearly a narcissist. One I’ve known for decades the others not so much.

The more I learned about their traits the easier it became to spot them and predict their actions. Anyone paying attention knows what they are going to do in any given situation, they are so obvious. The gaslighting chart you posted is so very revealing. There is nothing I can do to make things better. I’ve tried reason and logic in the past, the very things a narcissist hates the most.

So, thanks for this thread. It has been very educational. But I’m left with the same questions people have probably been asking for millennia. Why? Do narcissists really think no one can see through them? Are they delusional or just stupid? Or a combination of both?

For decades I’ve put a few people who have crossed my path into a category I call “Chaos People”. Where ever they go, there is chaos. I now see there is a subset of this group who are narcissists. And… there are degrees of narcissism I think. Still, if it’s possible, it's best to get these people out of your life, they never do anything to better others.
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I have probably said most of these things on here before.
The VA classifies narcissists (of course they have to have the diagnosis) as a Class B mental illness. I learned this from a cousin of mine who is a social worker for the VA.
I agree with you on your points. There are degrees of narcissism, but there are also 7 types of narcissists. I have not found as much information about the 7 types, but I do know some.
I was pretty aware of narcissism, but dated one, a covert narcissist, for 7 years without putting it together. The first clue was when he told me he had never been in love. Narcissists are pretty incapable of loving others. They may give the appearance of it, but it is for show.

I was in therapy for a few years, trying to understand what happened in my life. Not once was the term narcissism brought up to me. It was years later when someone I knew and worked with, was arrested for pedophilia and was diagnosed as a narcissist, that it came together for me. He was full of himself, like a spoiled man child, as were many in my family. Narcissists think they deserve a certain treatment, or there is going to be hell to pay. They will try to publicly shame you, lie about you to others, or get you back one way or another. Narcissistic rage is very real. I've seen it.

What I think is true of all narcissists is that they do think they are better and smarter than others and they deserve to be treated as such. They think they deserve what they want. I have heard some narcissists that I have known, spend time with someone and as soon as that person is gone, verbally abuse them. One person I know called someone he had known for years as his idiot friend. And yet, he spent time with him at least once a month. Another person would invite others over and then laugh and laugh at them when they were gone.

Narcissism runs in families. In a case close to me, one person became the family scapegoat, responsible at a young age for running the household, waiting hand and foot on others, while others languished, waiting to be served. In the process, verbal and emotional abuse was prevalent, so the others learned to treat the scapegoat that way also. Often, but not always, in dysfunctional family situations, males have preferential treatment. They do not learn to show respect like they could or should.
 
That word, deserve....it sets me off when I hear my mom use it. And then there's a medicare supplement commercial that comes on tv often. And it says to get the benefits you deserve. I really dislike that word because mom thinks and says she deserves the world and it drives me nuts.
 
Amish Heart said:
That word, deserve....it sets me off when I hear my mom use it. And then there's a medicare supplement commercial that comes on tv often. And it says to get the benefits you deserve. I really dislike that word because mom thinks and says she deserves the world and it drives me nuts.
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Your mom verbalizes that she thinks she deserves this or that. Some manipulate others to get what they think they deserve.
 
She does both sometimes. She cracks me up, though, around her birthday and she just did it for upcoming mother's day...she buys something and says, "This is my mother's day gift to me because I deserve this". Does the same for her birthday. She can buy something for herself anytime she wants, but she makes it a point to say this. And for Christmas. Called me and told me she bought the Alan Jackson CD's for her own present because she deserves it. Very weird. I try not to use the words proud or deserve. Both I view as negative, and it's probably due to my upbringing.
 
Well, I don't typically use language like this, but this comes from a group "My Sibling is a narcissist."

Narcissists are little bitches.JPG
 
Amish Heart said:
She does both sometimes. She cracks me up, though, around her birthday and she just did it for upcoming mother's day...she buys something and says, "This is my mother's day gift to me because I deserve this". Does the same for her birthday. She can buy something for herself anytime she wants, but she makes it a point to say this. And for Christmas. Called me and told me she bought the Alan Jackson CD's for her own present because she deserves it. Very weird. I try not to use the words proud or deserve. Both I view as negative, and it's probably due to my upbringing.
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There is something that I don't necessarily think is narcissistic, but people who buy themselves gifts for birthday, Christmas, etc. But maybe it is. I don't know. Why not just buy it and be done? LOL! I know a woman who doesn't work outside the home, but she and her husband live with her mother. She spends her days watching television and doing little home care or cleaning. But, she buys herself concert tickets and other things for herself for these special days. Makes no sense to me. If I want something, I just go get it.
 
Maybe a Narcisist Anonomous would help people obcessed with it? :dunno: Anything I can't stand is a dang narsicist.My great aunt was one.
 
Amish Heart said:
I did take it honestly and didn't cheat. I scored 0-11 points. Not a narc. And no, I didn't say I could rule the world.
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Thank goodness you know you can't rule the world ,only I can do that as you girls already know. Pay attention and maybe some day you can rule the world too.lightbulbAll joking aside in case yall haven't noticed your feeding my nacisim.🤭🏋️‍♀️
 
Amish Heart said:
Well then maybe you should meet my mom.
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I bet she'd be fun,maybe we could have a fashion show or something.I could give her some pointers on some things.I could also show introduce her to RXStrmom or Monique Parent.

FF for ya,

 
Two Thousand people have looked at this site,omgosh we are loaded with these self important individuals. Good thing we have this narcisist meeting to go to here now. Its an epedemic! :eyeballs:🏃‍♀️.
 
Meerkat said:
That test has too few questions,have you taken it,be honest and don't cheat.I did first few questions then figured a narcisist must have invented it. And yes I could rule the world better than whos ruling it now. [one of the dumb questions on test] :D .Go look at it again.
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Those types of psychology questions are not written based on narc (or other condition) behavior.

The test is written and then a bunch of guinea pigs take the tests. Included the collection of subjects taking the test are diagnosed people. Then statistics are used to figure out how different conditions answered the questions. So no trick questions only arbitrary.

There used to be the MMPI ( Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Index ) that was first pass at diagnosing a patient. It was comprised of a bunch of meaninglessness questions.

Example
I am afraid of spiders
I like spiders
I dont like spiders
I think spiders are cool....

Those questions were not there to ID aracnaphobianaphobia. They were arbitrary. An individuals answers where compared with diagnosed patients results to characterize the patient being tested. The results are not 100%. They are just a first guess.

When I was young and depressed (before God found me) I took the the MMPI. I came back as ...

A paranoid schizophrenic with psychotic tendencies.

"I got better"

;)

When I told The Princess she asked "Am i safe alone with you?"

Please resume your talk about narcs.

Ben
 
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